Hello I'm Curt and I'm new to the forum, I'm going to see Vaughn make a carbon print on Saturday and will be taking a workshop early next year on carbon and platinum printing with Jim F. and Per V. in California.

I plan to start by reading and collecting the materials, heard that many times before here and other places haven't you?
The wheel finally turned for me when I opened up the May/June 2009 issue of View Camera magazine and on the contents page saw a photograph by Sandy King of the Morelia Mural. I read the layout and looked at the pictures and imagined what others were saying about carbon prints with the texture and feel with the raised relief, color and unlimited choices of presentation.

In my preplanning I purchased a pound, why a pound, some said don't get a little amount it's too expensive that way, of Potassium Dichromate. Maybe a first mistake? Reading further I might have gone with Ammonium Dichromate. I have a vacuum unit and will be using a vacuum easel. I have to put together a UV light and look for a NuArc for future used as the process works out. I will be using B&S Carbon Tissue to start and fixed out paper. I have several boxes of old Seagull and some other brands. I have a darkroom of course and I plan to use 8x10 in camera negatives for starters and will most probably use Pyrocat HD because I just bought some and it is fresh and ready to use.

If I can make a sensitizer with the Potassium Dichromate and use B&S Carbon tissue what are the chances I will have a print the first time out? Well that's where I am in the process, now it's time to be quiet and learn.

Best,
Curt

Curt, this is awesome news! I work in just about the same way as you are describing. Read, read and read. This is what I did before I took a workshop with Vaughn last year. I develop my negatives in Pyrocat-HD and even though I'm still somewhat all over the place with my developing i have learned how to get what I need with carbon printing. The important thing to do is to have someone show you the steps and some of the nuances of the process. You are starting off in a good way by using the B&S tissue. You need to make adjustments to your process one at a time as you go.

You can use the Pot. Dichromate for the sensitizer and a pound will last quite a while. I really thing that with proper instruction a good negative and proper technique you should get a nice print. I can only speak for myself, but my first print went very well. I made my own tissue, boy was that fun, and had a successful transfer and got an image on the first go. I followed my teacher, Vaughn's, working methods and had success. I think it is important to be committed to the process and the more you know going in the better. At least that was the way it was for me. My very first really successful carbon transfer image was a Yosemite Renaissance winner last year.

Once we go through the process in the workshop the mystery will be unlocked. I hope Vaughn brings the 5x7 sea cave print he made some time ago. That print and several others changed the course for my photography.

Jim

Thanks Jim, It's like going back to school with that first day feeling, then the second day and so forth and it all comes together.
Curt

Hi Curt,


I too am a beginner and plugging away to make this process work for me. You will most likely come across snags here and there but there are so many knowledgeable people here, you'll be in good hands. Welcome!

If you have a UV lightsource and use the right final support (like fixed out photo paper) there's a real good chance of getting a print. Not perfect, but a print. The way you do your process will directly affect the transfer of the exposed emulsion to the final support and how much frilling takes place in the final part of development. The temperature and RH% of your room will also factor into the results.

Walk thru the process before you actually try one. Go thru the motions of loading your printing frame and mating the sandwich underwater. make sure everything you need is at hand especially for compressing the sandwich and weighing it down.

My personal idiosyncratic worry is that I have enough cold dead water to use for mating the exposed tissue to final support as I believe this is where those tiny bubbles and blisters form. But everyone will have their own crisis area to comment on.


John

make sure everything you need is at hand especially for compressing the sandwich and weighing it down.
I know a lot of printers use weights but this really should not be necessary -- it is not weight that causes the gelatin to transfer. I do nothing more than rest the tissue and support between two 1/4" sheets of plexiglas, so the weight is minimal. I don't even use blotter paper, and transfers are fine. I am thinking that this is one of the less finicky steps in the process.

I've never tried it without weight on the glass. It was a habit I started at the beginning and have never stopped doing it. I agree that it may be one of the less finicky steps in carbon printing. Oh, be sure to watch out for phases of the moon! Sometime this can be the worst.


jim

I've never tried it without weight on the glass.
Precisely! Not picking on you, we have probably all been guilty of this. I think everyone should test to see what is really required in their own environment. I think a lot of stuff gets perpetuated without being subjected to empirical testing.
Of course, if you find that you need to weight the sandwich, go for it!

Some of the things I do go back to the time before the internet chat boards when I only had historical writings to guide me.

The quality of that writing varied quite a bit. The Carbon process can be challenging in the sense that what works or doesn't work varies from practitioner to practitioner. Coupled with that is the suspicion that some of those early writers wrote their piece to throw others off the track in terms of getting a workable process. Competition was stiff back then. Plus, many of them were not very good at delineating a process so it could be used by another. Sometimes, a LOT of information was left out.

So, 'back in the day', when I got a part of the process to work I would keep it in my workflow. Sometimes even if it was proved that an element wasn't needed. Prejudice is a strong thing. Whenever I describe the process to someone I always try to present the alternatives so that people can understand that the carbon process can be done in a (small) variety of ways.

The other comment I'll make is that if a step in the process is un-necessary, it only needs to be removed if it is harmful togetting a good print. That's really the reason that we all have slightly different processes. Once any of us gets something that works, we are inclined to keep it.

Workshops are an excellent way to learn the carbon process, because the student doesn't have to interpret what he reads in a book. The results of each step are in his hands.

john

Workshops are an excellent way to learn the carbon process, because the student doesn't have to interpret what he reads in a book. The results of each step are in his hands.

I think group workshops are a great way to bootstrap learning a particular workflow that produces known results. They don't encourage a lot of experimentation because there typically is not enough time, and attendees want to see results when they have plunked down their $$$. Experimentation, testing, and honing the process mostly happens at home over an extended period of time. This doesn't necessarily apply to one-on-one workshops which can focus on solving specific problems.

Phil, I agree with you 100% on this. I like to teach the process but you can only cover the basics of my work flow. Anyone taking a workshop hopefully will understand this and also understand that it is the dedication at home in ones own environment that gets them to where they want to be. Workshops are a great catalysis to motivate and give people with interests in certain processes hands on experience with the basics.

Jim

Hi Jim, I had a great time at the Carbon Transfer workshop/presentation with Vaughn Hutchins today. I got up and left at 8am, drove to Vancouver Wash. and just got home a little while ago. Vaughn brought the 5x7 sea cave print and it was fantastic! He had prints which showed the relief in detail which is really remarkable. Seen at an angle I just couldn't believe what I was seeing at first it was that good.
Vaughn is a very bright and knowledgeable person, in fact there was a man there who just retired from making huge color Carbon prints for a company in Portland Ore. and he spoke up toward the end and said to listen closely because Vaughn was giving some extremely valuable tips in his presentation. Needless to say I'm impressed. I came away thinking "I can do this" with practice. You and others like Sandy and many others who give freely their knowledge of the process is what makes it possible for someone like me to have the fundamentals to begin.
In college my main teacher who was an accomplished dye transfer photographer would close the door half way through the process to "protect" the process from prying eyes. It got to be a joke. Sometimes I thought that getting an "A" was for not learning or complaining.
Vaughn made one comment that rings in my ears, he said, "I would like to have an 11x14 view camera". From what I saw 8x10 and smaller are fine too.

Best,
Curt

Curt, I'm glad you got to see the prints and listen to Vaughn's presentation. He is one of my mentors. He taught me the process and more importantly kept giving me advice and encouragement during my learning phase. I still ask him his advice from time to time.

The thing I like about carbon transfer is that it is one of the most challenging processes I've ever tried and one of the most labor intensive. The prints that you got to look at were the ones that got me hooked on carbon, I mean really hooked on carbon. Once you really start to think about the possibilities with this process you will wonder like I do "why isn't everyone doing this?"

I and others like me that want to keep the carbon transfer process alive love to give tips from our learning experiences. There are considerable variables that can come into play with carbon and I love to relate my experiences with what I have learned from Vaughn and Sandy and others. It makes me very happy if I can inspire someone and have them make the best prints of their life and take the process even further. I have just touched the surface and have learned a great deal in a very short time.This process is tailor made for me and the way I work. I built 2 ULF cameras by hand that took months to build so pouring glop and taking 3 days to make a print is a piece of cake.

I can understand Vaughn's wish for an 11x14. I have several 11x14 carbons that I love and will have them for everyone to see at the workshop in February. Now some people can get digital negatives in large sizes but I don't see myself going that route for some time. Although, I would love to do a 16x20 carbon.

Jim

I'm at the point where I have most of what I need with the other on order and waiting for arrival. I have a filter question, cheese cloth, jersey, or nylon stocking for filtering the glop? When to use which in the process?
Do I need sulfite or bi-sulfite to clear the print when done?

I have one last question: not having a NuArc unit I have to make a bank of BLB or get a bulb like the one Vaughn recommended. I'm gong to start with 5x7 negatives but still don't want to expose all night long, sounds like a song, so should I just get a big bulb or one of the B&S black BLB listed on their site?

Were can I look for a NuArc unit and how many $$$, maybe too soon to think about this? Someone should write a book called Carbon Printing with Training Wheels. It's fun though collecting the tools and reading about the process.

Thanks again,
Curt

Someone should write a book called Carbon Printing with Training Wheels.

It's been done -- both Sandy and Dick have books in print that will take you through the process step-by-step.
Worth reading!

Curt wrote:


Use BL bulbs (2 foot long bulbs) , they are cheaper and work just as well. for 5x7 use 3 bulbs positioned as close together as you can. When you go up in size you can simply add bulbs on the same mounting board. Fluorescents will give reasonable exposures. Get a small fan to blow air along the axis of the bulbs between the bulbs and print frame. It will work fine. Get a Stouffer step wedge (this is the single most expensive item so far). It will help you understand the process better. Not essential but it helps.
If you have a few tools this is easy as a DIY project. You can buy the fixture for 2 foot bulbs completely assembled - all you have to do is mount them on a board and wire the plug.

Fluorescents will need a slightly higher density range, maybe 2.00 or so.

Once you make a few prints things will become self-sustaining.

John

Also add a metal shield above the bulbs and ground it to the green ground wire on he ac line. The lack of this is the reason bulbs don't light up and you need to wipe your hand across the bulbs to get them to light.

I believe this is the way to go, and I do have a Stouffer step wedge and a Macbeth densitometer.
Thanks,
Curt

Dick, that's some valuable information, I made a light box years ago with tubes but I used store bought fixtures. If I purchase the bases separately I can space the bulbs closer.

Thanks,
Curt

At one time, don't know if it still in existence, there was a one-man shop selling all varieties of fluorescents tunes and related items in Burbank California. This was in the early 80's and I learned this from the guy that owned the store. He was at least in his 70's then, so not likely still in business. Burbank was a haven for shops selling hard to find items, I suspect, due to Lockheed being there. There were specialty welding shops that could weld anything to anything, great place. Even a store that specialized in fasteners, nuts, bolts, a anything that held anything to anything. Since Lockheed is only a pale shadow of its former self, I don't know how much of this is still around. All the little people that Lockheed hired during the War to climb back in small spaces and rig cables in airplanes are gone. A neighbor of mine whose father was a little person related a story about his father getting stuck and them having to cut open the plane to free him. Ok, enough OT.

--D




♦

I recommend T8 tubes and electronic ballast (not magnetic). My base exposures are about 21 minutes for carbon. Even this seems too long

Good morning, there is one item I haven't found an answer for and that's how are sensitizing brushes cleaned. I don't plan on using a foam brush but are they tossed out after one use or cleanable?

I can't remember what the clear plastic is called that is used between the negative and tissue. Is it plastic and does the thickness have any bearing on the sharpness of the print? Do I need to use it all in general use or just with "special" irreplaceable one of a kind negatives?

Jim I'm now waiting for the NuArc to arrive and I'm looking forward to exposures that aren't hours long. I think the word is out on the NuArc units, they are not going for a hundred dollars as they did in the past. I paid $330 and feel luck to have one with a stand. A local printing company gave me their best deal of $950 and it wasn't a 26-1K model. Another wanted $600 and $400 shipping.

I have read Vaughn's paper over and over to get the procedure down. If I could only get one book what should I get to start with?

Now I need the formula for mixing the Potassium Dichromate and %'s I originally bought 2 pounds before I found out I should have gotten Ammonium Dichromate but it will work fine from what I have heard from others.

While I'm waiting for the NuArc to arrive I'm getting the note cards written.

Curt

You can clean the brushes - just keep rinsing them with water, but remember that they are only good for dichromate after one usage. You'll never get rid of all the dichromate. Rinse and dry them and use them the next time you print.

Also if you make your own with fluors place a piece of sheeet metal behind the bulbs and ground the metal. This way they are more likely to all light when turned on.

--Dick

Sorry for the delay in posting a response. The day job has been brutal lately.

I have used the Purdy brush and foam brushes for sensitizing and I have rinsed them in my bathtub several times and use the only for dichromate sensitizing after that.

I have a roll of Mylar that I got form the late Gordon Chapple but I have also cut down the Clear Bags Negative sleeves. I like to tape my safe edge on the Mylar and then put the negative on that. I always use the Mylar. I lost two 11x14 negatives, because I was stupid ( well on the second one at least) to not using one. Your negative will not stick and be ruined using this method.

I have Vaughn's paper and Sandy Kings book as my only sources. I think the best thing is to read as much as you can and then print, print and print. You learn an awful lot when printing. When I was learning( and I'll never stop) I would get home from work, sensitize two tissues and make two images a night. Great for the learning curve. I'll give you some more tips at the workshop.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Jim

Or just use a solid copper ground wire (10-14G) draped across the top of the bulbs, works like a champ.

Don Bryant