Advanced Process Forum

Digital Negatives

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:18:06 -0500

Hello all,

I am a member and know so little about carbon printing you might as well say I know nothing about carbon printing. I currently print on an Epson 3800 coverted to Piezograpy K7 ink and use a Canon 5D camera. I want to know how to make digital negatives on my 3800 for carbon printing. Can it be done with black inks? I have seen carbon prints and I find them to be "alive". I want to learn how to take my digital images into the carbon print world. Any help will be appreciated.

Jim

Color carbon

Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:41:11 -0500

I've got a team together who will be exploring the possibilities of 4-color carbon:

Peter Ellzey: formerly of CompuGraphics, He was early on noted for his digital negatives and was recommended by Dan Burkholder in his book. He should be a valuable asset to making separations!

Gordon Mark: noted pt and carbon printer, works primarily in 12 x20.

Madelyn Willis: Accomplished carbon printer and raconteur. Dedicated teacher of little tykes at a local Pueblo.

Andre Ruesch: Head of the photography department at Santa Fe Community College and also a carbon printer. Also a fondue expert, by way of his Swiss homeland.

And last:

Herr Professor Howard Efner: Who has already explored color carbon and is quite an expert in matters concerning molykules.

I will set up a separate section to sort of blog about our activities.

Three of our new machines are operational and lend themselves for technical reasons to making of 4-color tissue. I expect to have a few more running in the near future.

Comment s welcome

--Dick

Photography at the British Library.

Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:35:43 -0500

Just heard about this: Points Of View at the British Library.

The slide show has some nice images. The second to last is a carbon print.
Slideshow

By chance, I have some business in London in November so I will check this out.

John

Tissue does not adhere to the final paper

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:11:30 -0400

Hello,

I am using the B&S tissue (Renaissance black) and I tried to transfer the latent image on the following supports:
- Old RC argentic photo paper, fixed and washed,
- watercolor paper, sized with several coats of a 4% gelatin solution (food grade but pure) with some drops of formaldehyde,
- watercolor paper, sized with several coats of a 4% gelatin, hardened in Kodak F5-A,
- Bergger COT-320, sized with several coats of a 4% gelatin solution plus some drops of formaldehyde.
I followed the instructions given by Sandy King on http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art110.html
(process, temperature etc) but each time, the result was catastrophic: the image is clearly well
formed in the tissue paper but it does not stick at all to the final paper: It detach itself in
the developping bath and floats. I tried to apply a firm pressure on the sandwich tissue-paper but
the result is not significantly different. The only indication I have is that the denser part of the image
(for testing, I print a Stouffer step tablet) tends to adhere more on the final paper, but I don't know
how to interpret that.
Anyone has an idea? what I am doing wrong?

Than you,
Christian.

Fixed out FB paper

Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:29:13 -0400

Sandy King recommends using a hardening fixer to prepare photographic paper as a final support. Has anyone done this with a non-hardening fixer or done a separate hardening step later? I wasn't thinking and fixed out a dozen sheets of paper in TF-4. I prefer not to toss the lot out and was wondering if there is a way to salvage them.

Thanks,

Ash

Consistency issues

Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:06:10 -0400

Hi all,

Last night I made two single transfer prints created under identical (within the bounds of the process) conditions. They were both made on B&S tissue, brush sensitized with 1.5% AD in isopropyl, exposed for the same amount of time on a 26-1K and processed identically after exposure.

The issue is that one of the prints exhibited peeling on one side during development while the other didn't. I did my best to make sure that there was no difference in the workflow for both prints and so am a little unsure about the difference in results. What is a common cause for partial peeling like this?

Thanks,

Ash

back at it...

Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:32:00 -0400

Obviously I am thinking about carbon printing quite a bit -- checking in on this forum, preparing to give carbon workshops, and all that. But it just seems that I am not doing much of it. Which can be very frustrating. Lots of reasons -- no darkroom at home, raising three 12 year old boys, wife works full time, yadda yadda yadda. But thanks to one of our students at the university who wants to do an independent study of carbon printing, I have gotten off my butt. We got together a week ago and we both made some prints on some tissue I had left over from a demo I did up in Vancouver, WA. Then last night we tweaked the receipe for his negs and made some new tissue for him, and I made up a batch for myself.

I even took a day off of work last Monday and got out and photographed in the Redwoods -- beautiful day. It was the calm before the storm -- nice when you can hit them. Light overcast and no wind -- and with the Fall color (we only get yellow) getting ready to peak. I think I'll take another day off on Tuesday or Wednesday and go back up. Of course I have not been able to develop the negs yet, and I am starting to get a backlog of negatives -- I don't like that. Not a terribly large backlog...maybe a dozen or so negatives...some from last April in Yosemite (on HP5...don't know if I like that stuff...I have some old D-19 that I should try on it, but the D-19 powder is probably too old.)

Just blowing off some air here.

Vaughn

Freeze after exposing?

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:51:13 -0400

I know you can freeze sensitized tissues ... but can you also freeze exposed tissues for later development? Related question ... can you sensitize, freeze, thaw, expose, and refreeze before development?

I know this sounds kind of crazy but I often use the midday sun for my exposure and it is more convenient to develop the tissues at night. I guess I'll have to run some tests.

Clear Coat

Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:48:32 -0400

I have an assistant now, David Hyams BFA. David has been doing carbon on white aluminum, Harbor Sales stuff we've talked about before.

David took an image up to Don's Auto Body, a few doors up and Don was kind enough to clear coat one of David's images. Pretty amazing. Emphasis on the "zing."

Clear coat is the clear finish that is put on top of car paint. I believe it is what was the rage in the late 50's when I was a teenager and was called "Candy Apple" paint.

The good:

Hard and durable, as one can imagine a paint surface on a car that is designed to withstand environmental torture.

It should also be archival as hell for the same reason.

It >should< "button down" the carbon image. Any micro mudflat cracks that Bob Herbst observed largely due to improper clearing should not occur -- says me.

I suspect this image should last outside for several years without degradation.

As soon as we have one that is a throw away, I'll nail it outside on the north side of our building and see what happens.

The bad:

Flattens any relief, if that is your thing.

Very slick looking, nothing subtle about it. Very jazzy. If laid back and a traditional look is your thing, not good. I am thinking that it could be quite a trip for a 4 color carbon image.

David had a few bubbles that were very hard to find in the image before clear coating. The clear coat makes them stand out real good.

He also wants to try putting an image on a clear coat and then coating that. Thinks it may have a "floating" look. we'll see.

--Dick

Tray vs. Brush Sensitization

Thu, 08 Oct 2009 09:27:31 -0400

Good Morning - I've been brush sensitizing tissues for 8x10 in-camera negatives for the past year. I am now working on generating digital negatives larger than 8x10 and wonder if tray sensitization will lead to a more even coating of sensitizer at larger sizes (in the 11x14 to 16x20 range). (I've had no problem with generating an even coating using a foam brush on the 8x10 tissues.) I've avoided tray sensitization in the past 'cause it seems that a significantly greater amount of sensitizer would just be wasted relative to brush sensitization... Thanks! Eric

Irving Penn

Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:00:24 -0400

Irving Penn has passed on at the age of 92.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8296030.stm

Howard

Viastone

Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:54:58 -0400

Has anyone tried Viastone as a final support? See: http://www.inksupply.com/paper.cfm#viastone

Titanium Dioxide as pigment?

Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:12:24 -0400

OK...forgive me if this is the stupidest question ever...keep in mind I have yet to make a carbon print.

But would it be possible to use titanium dioxide as the pigment, and transfer the tissue to a black (or any other color) substrate? I ask because of the nature of carbon prints, the darkest areas are built up the most, seemingly bringing the shadows forward and causing the highlights to recede. If this could be done the other way around, I think it could make a stunning visual impression.

The one stumbling block I foresee is that TiO2 is highly reflective to UV light, and I wonder whether this might interfere with the exposure, or whether it could simply be overcome with adjustments to the negative (actually a positive in this case) used to print. Perhaps some other white pigment (lime, chalk, talc) that might be less UV-reflective?

Anyway, this is just a thought that was running around my head. I'd be curious to hear what the experts have to say about this.

--Greg

Defects and Mistakes - Art?

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 13:08:16 -0400

I was reading a post in the Carbon Archive Section adressing the lack of basic Photography skills being not taught in todays classes. It brought to mind my early studies in photography, when I was just beginning to produce Pt/Pd images on glass.
I was showing some of my early glass transparency work to my MFA instructer. When I called her attention to an obvious deffect she said "Bill, its the deffects that make it art!".
I could not disagree more! As a person whose hands are not connected to his brain,I spend a great deal of time trying to prevent deffects. It is always my goal to duplicate,on glass, my pre-visualization. If I produce a deffect, I have failed.
This MFA lady was not the only instructor who vigorously mantained that "defects make the art".
However, they all seam to be around the same age and all have MFA degrees.
Just venting,
Bill

In out of the sun ...

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:48:33 -0400

I have been printing primarily using the sun. Living in California's central valley and being retired, it's pretty convenient. I make a test/strip/print at 11:30ish (12:30ish in the summer) and come back out an hour later to do the final. Piece of cake. And, the exposure times are short ... usually less than ten minutes. The local paper even publishes a UV index for the day which I've always intended to try to correlate to exposure times ... but ... of course, never got around to it.

But I recently found a 1000 watt Nuarc lamp - model Q-1K-LP - for $40 on-line and decided to try it even though it's not really a good UV lamp ... just a big old bright broad coverage lamp.

It hangs easily under my tripod and, as my first test strip on a 4x5 negative tonight shows ... works just fine ... (a fishing boat in Humboldt Bay near Eureka.) I have attached a picture of the setup and the first test strip. The 3 exposure times on the strip are 30 minutes, 1 hour, and 1 hour and 45 minutes. The distance from the lamp to the contact print frame is 20". The glop was sensitized with a 2% Ammonium Dichromate solution. Pigment is lamp black water color and a touch of cobalt blue watercolor to cool down the image (which worked great ... thanks, Vaughn.) Sorry for the poor quality of the test strip image (a digital camera shot) ... but it appears that about 1 hour is pretty close. We'll see for sure tomorrow night.

Good news is that the lamp works and the polyurethane finish on the hardwood floor is completely cured now ... bad news is my wife thinks the sun is a much better idea than taking over the kitchen for 4 hours at a time.

Carbon Tissue in Smaller Cut Sheets??

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:33:56 -0400

I'm just starting to think about carbon printing, and being the frugal sort that I am, the cost of the large sheets of tissue, plus the oversize shipping costs, seem like a barrier to entry.

It would be great if B&S would sell the carbon tissue in cut sheets, like 8x10 or 9x12...easy and inexpensive to ship, and tinkerers like me could just order a couple of sheets to get started.

Just a thought...

--Greg

Vacuum frames - necessary?

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:32:38 -0400

Let me paraphrase this discussion with the statement that I am a hobbyist photographer, not a professional ... and that I have limited experience compared to the average poster on this board (actually ... "very limited" would be more accurate.)

That being said, I enjoy the discussion ... both the science and the craft of vacuum frames. I would like to have one and will probably build one.

For me, vacuum frames fall into the "is it really worth it" category. I have printed probably 45 carbon images ... admittedly, a small number. I have used contact printing frames for all of those. I have printed 4x5, Whole Plate, and 8x10. I have never used a vacuum frame. All of the images that I've printed using the contact printing frames have been very sharp. Using a 6x loop, I cannot tell the difference between the negative and the print in any of them. Consequentially, I wonder about the worth of a vacuum frame.

Drawing on the vast experience of this group, I have some questions:
1. At what size negative does the vacuum frame become noticeably significant? 4x5, 6.5x8.5, 8x10, larger than 8x10?
2. Why isn't a high quality contact printing frame as good as a vacuum frame? (And, yes, I have heard about the possible uneven pressure of the frames ... I just have not seen it ... and, I have, and have used, 2 5x7, 2 8x10, and 2 11x14 frames.)
3. Does the use of a vacuum frame increase the likelihood of damage to the negative without a mylar buffer?
4. Are there any downsides to using a vacuum frame?

Tissue support

Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:25:22 -0400

I was reading about supports for the tissue and remember that I bought some vellum several years ago at surplus. It's denril multi-media vellum 8 1/2 x 11 inches and is water proof, stays flat, anti-static and is very strong. For some reason I bought 6 100 sheet packages, that's 600 sheets of it. As I remember I printed some drawings for blueprints with my Epson 1520 13x19 inch printer.

Has anyone used this material for tissue support? Anyone use a 1520 to make digital negatives?

Thanks,
Curt

UV LED exposure unit

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:16:09 -0400

Hi all--

Like new forum member Curt, I was at Vaughn's demo on Saturday and got inspired. So I'm in the process of collecting information, too.

I was thinking about the exposure step, and I was wondering if it was practical to use UV LED's, especially for small prints as I'm getting started. I understand that exposure times might be a bit slow, but again, I'm thinking small to start (4"x5" prints max.).

The bigger question, is, does anyone know what wavelength would be ideal? Specifically for a potassium dichromate sensitizer? The 2 readily available options seem to be 400nm (right on the edge of the visible spectrum) or 385nm.

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide.

-- Greg

Which Yupo?

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:48:45 -0400

Which type of Yupo is recommended for a tissue support and/or for a final support?

Ink

Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:15:09 -0400

I went to the art store and they were out of lamp black watercolor in all brands. I have heard that an ink called Black Cat can be used.

Among the choices has anyone tried Back Cat? What ink should I begin with, water color lamp black in small tubes or something else? It looks like I will have to mail order, where is the best place to get inks?

Thanks,
Curt

The things we learn

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:53:26 -0400

Santa Fe is at 7000 ft altitude. When I first moved here I was in the supermarket when a storm front passed through. I reached for a bag of rice that was in a large stack that was a promotion for a sale. The bag was blown up tight as were the others. The disturbance cause about 5 oor 6 to blow open and rice started spilling to the floor. The one in my hand did not pop. They were filled and sealed at sea level and when brought up hill to SF the air expanded, the storm front with is low pressure system didn't help. Potato chip bags are often filled tight like a balloon.

In the last week I had two complaints that tissue arrived that was crushed. One customer was livid about it and blamed me, I was puzzled ,as to why me, instead of UPS. My friend Dana Strout in Camden Me, just emailed me about his but he's a lawyer and plays Sherlock a lot. He said the square tubular box we ship in was in perfect order but the tissue in the >sealed< plastic slip tube was crushed, like soda botltle the air was sucked out of. Recently I started double sealing the tubes with my heat sealer. Why, dunno, just seamed like a good idea to seall thm well.

It's just the opposite problem of the rice packages exploding The tissue were packed at sealed in a partial vacuum and when they arrived at the extra pressure at sea level in Camden Me, the added air pressure crushed them. My other customer obviously opened the unscathed box and retrieved a crushed roll of tissue, and thought how careless of us to have crushed the tissue and then put it in the box.

Now I know to leave a vent in the sleeves. In fact I will not seal one end.

Like I needed this

AD and or PD

Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:30:08 -0400

I'm finding the learning process a lot like rafting down a river, take a wrong branch and it's up hill all the way back to the main, prepare for the variables like rapids, eddies and slow water, watch out over head for low bridges and look out for snags.

In my haste I bought a pound of PD and mentioned that I had some old Seagull paper to use. After the workshop with Vaughn I realize I should have gotten AD and he mentioned that Seagull didn't work for him but Ilford did. I guess I'll have to use up the Zone VI Brilliant that I never used.

My question is: what should I do with the Potassium Dichromate now? I think the tray method is out for many reasons.

Thanks,
Curt

New forum member

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:15:32 -0400

Hello I'm Curt and I'm new to the forum, I'm going to see Vaughn make a carbon print on Saturday and will be taking a workshop early next year on carbon and platinum printing with Jim F. and Per V. in California.

I plan to start by reading and collecting the materials, heard that many times before here and other places haven't you?
The wheel finally turned for me when I opened up the May/June 2009 issue of View Camera magazine and on the contents page saw a photograph by Sandy King of the Morelia Mural. I read the layout and looked at the pictures and imagined what others were saying about carbon prints with the texture and feel with the raised relief, color and unlimited choices of presentation.

In my preplanning I purchased a pound, why a pound, some said don't get a little amount it's too expensive that way, of Potassium Dichromate. Maybe a first mistake? Reading further I might have gone with Ammonium Dichromate. I have a vacuum unit and will be using a vacuum easel. I have to put together a UV light and look for a NuArc for future used as the process works out. I will be using B&S Carbon Tissue to start and fixed out paper. I have several boxes of old Seagull and some other brands. I have a darkroom of course and I plan to use 8x10 in camera negatives for starters and will most probably use Pyrocat HD because I just bought some and it is fresh and ready to use.

If I can make a sensitizer with the Potassium Dichromate and use B&S Carbon tissue what are the chances I will have a print the first time out? Well that's where I am in the process, now it's time to be quiet and learn.

Best,
Curt

Sensitizer Concentration with PDN Digital Negatives

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:35:55 -0400

Good Morning.

I continue to make progress in slow steps - with occasional missteps along the way! Currently I can generate very satisfying double transfer images from in-camera negatives. That leaves calibrating for PDN digital negatives so I can print some of my 4x5 negatives which were developed for silver and are obviously a bit on the small side for contact printing.

It's my understanding that as I increase the sensitizer concentration I make greater demands on the ink set used to generate the digital negatives (clear high-values requiring ink densities at the upper-margin of what the ink can deliver). I will be using an Epson R2400 to generate digital negatives. Does anyone have a suggestion for sensitizer concentration for images which will be printed with a digital negative which will generate clear high values without going much beyond 110% of normal ink concentration in the digital negative if I am NOT really interested in significant relief in the final image? (I am much more attracted to the richness in images which seems to be amplified by higher dichromate concentrations.)

I'd contemplated starting out around 6% and see what I see, but the PDN process is rather time-intensive - so I am definitely open to suggestions!

Thanks once again!

Eric

Annie's in trouble

Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:54:34 -0400

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8240403.stm

As talented as she is, she is more a photographic corporation than an artist.

This must be the calendar

http://blog.brotherhoodofthebean.com/2008/...vazzaleibovitz/

Note also that she is Photoshopping and combining images. Very naughty!

--Dick

New Member Here

Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:27:20 -0400

I'm a new member on this forum and new to Carbon Process of which I only have conceptual knowledge. I've signed up for the workshop and am very much looking forward to it. It's been some years since I spent time in the darkroom, this last decade occupying me with digital process.
I'll be spending the months between now and the workshop preparing for it and spending time on this forum, gleaning all I can from all the members here. Any unsolicited advice will be welcome! I can't be offended. I hope also to make useful contributions here. -John

ps.
Apologies for the double post. I won't make a habit of it.

Making your own paper

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:29:07 -0400

I have gathered together most of the materials for making my own paper. I have a couple of reference works but nothing that directly relates to carbon transfers onto the paper ... mostly just for decorative uses or as a water color base.

Has anyone here done this? Any links or references you'd recommend? Any theories, ideas, recommendations, warnings, etc.?

Yosemite ... April ... carbon printing

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:08:16 -0400

I just got my notice from the Ansel Adam's Gallery that they will host a carbon workshop in Yosemite from April 19-23 taught by Vaughn Hutchins ("Vaughn" on this site) ... this is a perfect time in Yosemite ... lots of snow in the high country, the waterfalls are spectacular with the spring runoff, the Merced River through the valley has amazing reflections, and Mirror Lake is at its highest with spectacular reflections (and just a 1/2mile easy walk from the tram stop.)

Vaughn's an extraordinary teacher who covers his methods and other printers methods without pushing one or the other ... a great way to learn different techniques to allow you to take your own route from there.

And, 5 days in Yosemite in the Spring printing in carbon in St. Ansel's very own dark room ... you just can't beat that!

I've reserved my spot ... there are only 7 more left ... and, as of now, all the accommodations are open (the Ahwanee, the Lodge at the Falls, and Curry Village but they fill up FAST!!!!! ... If you reserve a spot in the workshop ($150 deposit - refundable) in the next couple of months, they will guarantee lodging space) ... and if you want to camp with the rock climbers for $5/night in the famous walk-up Camp 4 ... it always has plenty of room in April and is an unbelievable experience.)

Hope to finally meet some of you there! I'm sure Vaughn and the AA gallery will post more later.

Pumps -- The sucking kind

Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:21:29 -0400

Since many of us have a vacuum frame and at some time may need to replace a pump, I found this book on compressors and pumps at:

http://www.gastmfg.com/literature.html called "Vacuum Pressure Handbook"

It's clearly written and informative without being overly technical and covers all types of pumps and issues about vacuum -- and it is free.

--Dick

R2400 and Digital Negatives

Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:45:02 -0400

Is anyone here using an R2400 to make digital negatives? If so, how successful is it?

New Work - Hexachrome Carbon

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:38:50 -0400

Hi All,

So...I'm not sure whether I should be posting this in the Carbon forum or possibly in Other Processes?? There are plenty of times I wonder if I'm doing carbon or photo-mechanical assembly. Anyway....I've done half a dozen color prints now in quick succession and it appears that the methods I am using seem to be somewhat stable and relatively repeatable. So I thought I would very roughly outline my current working process for anyone who is interested in working with color carbon.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=351

My present method of printing is to laminate the final support paper to a sheet of aluminum that has been fitted with an integral pin bar. This platen is then placed on a sheet of newspaper and masked with wide high tack masking tape approx. 1/4in out from the final support paper and taped down to the newsprint at the same time. A fairly heavy coating of 6% 150 or 175 bloom gelatin is then applied by spraying it on in several stages. I suspect that a thinner coating would work just as well but have not yet tried that under my current conditions. The newsprint under the plate allows for over-spray and handling.

When dry, the final support is hardened using a Glyoxal solution applied by brush. I use a fairly large flat watercolor wash brush for this purpose. I keep my hardener refrigerated and apply it cold (approx. 0C) to the gelatin until it is uniformly absorbed and the gel feels somewhat tacky to the touch. I find that three or four brush fulls of hardener generally does the trick for a 5.5x8.5 sheet of paper. The hardener is made by adding 10ml of 40% Glyoxal to 500ml of distilled water. Also add 1/4 teaspoon of Sodium Bicarbonate and 5ml of Methyl Alcohol. I have kept this solution in the refrigerator for months without apparent ill effect. When the paper becomes dry the platen is cut from the newsprint and washed in cold water for 1/2 hour and then the masking tape is stripped off and the assembly is dried again.

Tissues are mold cast sensitizer incorporated using 1% ammonium chromate as the sensitizer. The tissue substrate is plastic and has been pre-punched for registration. Tissues are dried for 24 hours in a humidity controlled environment and then interleaved with plain uncoated paper in a large zip-lock and frozen. I make up a complete set of color tissue as needed for each printing session. The pigments used in this image are acrylic artists colors although I also use industrial colorants and aqueous dispersions as pigment sources. One of the keys I have found so far is to choose pigments that are as transparent as possible.

At the moment I am using paper negatives for all of my prints and find them to be quite acceptable for most exploratory work. Printing times are between 1.5 and 3.0 minutes using an Olec 900 watt light source with integrator. Light source is about 2.5 feet above the vacuum frame. No curves have been used in producing the negatives and the system has not yet been calibrated.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=352

When printing, I currently use the single transfer method to retain relief. Both the platen/paper assembly and the tissue are soaked in dead water at room temperature (about 20C) for one minute before mating. Soak time may need to be adjusted because you are looking for a balance that will allow sufficient water to be absorbed by the paper and the tissue so as to allow separation when developing, but not so much moisture that adequate bonding does not take place. Mating time is one hour under relatively light pressure

Development takes place in a water bath at 42C and is taken to completion (no more colored runoff). When development is almost complete the water bath is cooled to about 30C and then the print is given a final rinse in cold tap water. The print is then dried before it is placed in a 5% Potassium Metabisulfite bath at room temperature for 15 minutes and then washed for an additional 1/2 hour in clean, room temperature water (about 20C). The print is then dried again and is ready for the next color. So far the system has stood up for twelve wet and dry cycles.

This is pretty much a very basic outline of the work flow that I currently use, although the finer points of implementation are in constant flux as I work at improving the process. There are many "What if" scenarios that I would yet like to cover but it is a time consuming process and will take a while. A lot of the details would also need to be tweaked by the individual worker as dictated by their own materials and working environment. I will probably go back to three or four color carbon for upcoming work but just wanted to see how far I could push the process. More images produced in the same manner can be seen in my gallery on this forum.

There is still much to learn and the final results so far may not drop the jaw of the advertising director at Time/Life but we all need to start somewhere before we can master a process. I presently feel that color carbon can be worked with at any level in much the same way as color gum. It's just a different medium like oil paint and watercolor are different mediums, and I personally much prefer to work with a gelatin based system rather than gum based. Your system can be kept relatively simple or you can pull out all the stops, but it's really not all that difficult. It depends on just how far you want to take the process. At the moment it appears that I still have my sanity and I am happier than a pig in s*** to be able to print color again without being tethered to an inkjet printer (aside from making negatives) or being at the mercy of materials manufacturers.

Best Wishes from the Lunatic Fringe,
Andrea

Viscosity and temperature of glop at point of coating

Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:40:56 -0400

Sandy King's book shows the glop being poured from a container onto the support tissue with what looks to be a fairly thick, even consistency. At what degree of viscosity and temperature should one pour? Obviously not at the jelly or set stage, but straight after being re-melted?

Tom

How not to make tissue

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:38:26 -0400

Just for fun. Yanni decided we were done pouring tissue as soon as I squeegeed the first support to the pouring table. He was right -- I was testing a new watercolor that was insufficiently pigmented at 1.5%. If I had poured the tissue it would have gone right into the trash. He has the run of my workspace but surprisingly, his fur never ends up in the tissue.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=345

Mix of printing processes

Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:52:38 -0400

As someone who has a tremendous sense of anticipation at making my first carbon transfer print soon, I'm interested to know what mix of processes various members carry out or if you are dedicated to one process such as carbon transfer?

Assuming I continue with carbon transfer I can still see myself making lith prints and standard silver gelatin prints in certain instances, however I assume the majority of my black & white printing will be carbon.

Tom

High Relief

Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:42:44 -0400

I just made a run of high relief tissue that is even. The new machine allows this.

--Dick

Height of HID lamp off work surface

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:35:46 -0400

I have ignited my HID system for the first time, after first donning lab coat and goggles... Everything seems to be working (no explosions); it is tremendously bright (80,000 lumens according to the lamp box) and very blue. What is a sensible starting height for the HID lamp off the working / exposure surface?

Can one re-ignite the lamp while still warm?

Tom

Gelatin won't melt!! What's up

Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:10:42 -0400

Hi Folks, new guy here

With the help of Jim F. and reading this board I have been having relatively consistent results in my printing routing. However, I am having a problem
with a new bunch of tissues I have poured. I was using speedball and b+s black tissue with comparable results but I switched to Black Cat India Ink
and I'm having a problem getting the gelatin to melt in the developer. It is like rubber and very durable. My recipe for the glop was
1000 ml water
90 grams 250 gelatin
30 grams sugar
10ml glycerine
10ml Black Cat Ink

Is this not enough ink and I'm just totally overexposing the gelatin. It is all I can do to separate the tissue from the support. Part of the tissue holds pigment and some stays on the support - not pretty. There is no image because
I can't melt the gelatin My exposure time with a blb bank was 17 minutes where as with the speedball and b+s tissue the same neg was 35 minutes.
Is this a rookie mistake or did I somehow mix the glop incorrectly and did not catch my mistake?

Any help would be appreciated!
regards
Erik Larsen

Water baths for glop making

Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:36:39 -0400

In my 'starting carbon transfer' material and equipment list I noted that I proposed using a slow cooker for glop making as I don't have a lab style water bath. I'm interested to find out what other carbon printers use for heating the glop solution (and final support gelatin sizing) which I understand needs to be around 50�C (120-125�F) for an hour, beyond the range of an aquarium style heater but lower than some other potential methods. Have problems been encountered using a slow cooker compared to more sophisticated methods?

Tom

New in Carbon

Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:53:34 -0400

Hello,
I'm new on this forum and I will begin with alt. processes, Carbon , VDB, Kallitype and Cyanotype.

For Carbon :

1. Food Gelatin 240* Bloom will be good ?
ZELATYNA SPOZYWCZA WIEPRZOWA 240 BLOOM 1 kg - 27PLN = 9-10$

2. This Ink Lefranc & Bourgeois Encre De Chine Intense Indian Ink 500ml - 41PLN - 14-15$
http://www.sklepplastyczny.pl/tusz-chinski-53780/
Will be good?

3. Ammonium Dichromate I use from local Chemical Store " Aktyn- Poznan" 100gram - 12PLN - 4$

4. Formalin for sizing.

5. Paper for carbon tissue: RC InkJet PhotoPaper is ok?

6. UV Unit - for now ... Sun, in 2-3 months maybe used AGFA G'EVAERT Dupliphot HS 130

Some tips will be ok

My english is not good...

Pozdrawiam
Konrad Sadowski
Hello from Poland.

Question on 5% stock solution of Ammonium Dichromate from B&S

Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:54:53 -0400

i have a liter of the 5% Sol of Ammonium dichromate. In reading the B&S manual, it explains the dilution in Mixing the Sensitizer. My understanding is that the 5% solution does not yet contain the alcohol. Is the % the amount before the alcohol? (adding 50ml of alcohol to 50ml of the stock 5% solution will give? 5% 2.5%?

I did an initial test and just tried 50 ml/50ml mixture and had quite a bit of fog. I'm printing digital negatives (i'll be figuring out my own curve, but just need a good starting point in sensitizing dilution.

thanks!

jim

Clarification on liquid ink usage and glop quantities

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:03:39 -0400

To clarify a point I'm slightly unclear on from various readings:

If I use a liquid ink (e.g. http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/products..._indian_ink.htm ), then I'll be using somewhere in the order of 50ml ink in 1000ml glop - (the other constituents being water, sugar, and gelatin), using very roughly 100ml glop per A4 tissue?

Tom

No more discussion about the Yahoo forum

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:23:52 -0400

Any more will be deleted.

Let's move on with carbon printing.

--Dick

sending pm's or creating albums

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:50:19 -0400

I've tried sending some PM's to ask this, but it doesn't appear to be sending them (i look in my sent message folder after sending, and it remains empty). Also, attempting to create an album gives me an error about an invalid category, but it doesn't allow me to change it to anything.

Am I doing something wrong?

thanks!

jim

Carbon Transfer Forum on Yahoo

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:07:57 -0400

Hello,

Hi, I am Sandy King. Some of you know me, others not. I am a carbon printer, having done both color and monochrome work since the 1980s.

I am starting a carbon transfer discussion group on Yanhoo.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarbronTransfer/message/1

Thanks in advance for participating. In time I hope to make this one of the premier sites on the web for information on carbon printing.

Sandy King

Finishing Double Transfer Prints

Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:18:47 -0400

Greetings once again!

I've moved a bit further down the road - last weekend I created a wonderful double transfer image using 175 bloom tissue with 20% pigment and transferring same to watercolor paper sized with two coatings of 175 bloom gelatin. All was wonderful. I'd finally seen the potential of carbon! Then "a bad thing happened", as my son used to say.

I'd read in someone's double transfer work flow summary that, after all was done, one needed to re-soak the dried image in water for a bit (I went for about 15 minutes) to re-swell the gelatin and get rid of the very slight gloss from the surface of the temporary plastic support. I did so. The resulting image lost a very significant amount of contrast as the high values blurred into the adjacent mid or low tones. The detail just went away! The image went from one with exquisitely delicate high values on the dry final support to, simply put, a muddy and unsatisfactory imagein the re-soaked image. It's almost like the ink ran, so to speak...

Was I wrong to do the re-soak? The slight gloss wasn't really a distraction. I feel like the goal is in sight, for the first time...

As always, thanks once again!

Eric Haff

Homemade Vacuum Frame

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:21:26 -0400

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a vacuum frame?

Thanks!

Keeping the negative in contact with the carbon tissue

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:20:26 -0400

After experimenting with using an aluminium picture frame as as contact printing frame for cyanotype today, I realise this option, which I had intended to start carbon printing with is rather delicate and probably not robust enough. Firstly, can any of the contact printing frames be recommended (Fotospeed market a 12x16" device here in the UK, but I'm not aware of any other UK carbon printers on this forum or APUG)? Secondly, is sandwiching the negative and carbon transfer tissue between two heavy sheets of glass (6mm) a sensible option?

Tom.

Highlight veining/mottling

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:40:14 -0400

I printed and image yesterday that had a bit of sky in it. The sky was a bit lighter than mid gray and somehow when I print images with sky showing I seem to get mottling or veining of the highlights. The gelatin is 230 bloom and my pigment was 9gr/1000 ml. I seem to recall that if you use a lesser bloom gelatin it can make your highlights soft and more susceptible to this sort of thing. My work flow is very consistent and maybe there is something I'm missing on this one. It would be nice to be able to control my skies but so far this is a problem for me. I am careful to filter my glop so I get it as clean as possible. Any ideas?
Thanks.

Jim

Autotype discontinuing gravure tissue!!!!!

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:36:30 -0400

Well, I have my work cut out for me.

--DIck

Developing ILFORD Delta 100 camera negatives for carbon printing

Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:44:19 -0400

Has anyone here developed Delta 100 for carbon printing contrasts with Pyrocat-HD or another developer? Sandy King has published starting times for FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus but not Delta 100.

Tom

Print Swap

Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:18:59 -0400

Ok, All you TAPF users.

While doing the APIS 6th Print Swap, Richard asked me if we could do a FORUM PRINT EXCHANGE, I said yes, no problem.

Ok, let me re-think this.

1. ship work to Santa Fe, NM

2. a mix of work not every body does carbon on this site (me included)

3. dead lines to get the work in

4. do the swap/exchange

5. ship the work back

ok, sounds easy?????

a. we need to have a max size of prints

b. loose prints???? matted prints????

c. shipping??????

d. dead lines ????? some time next year yes/no

e. each person needs to cover shipping costs, that's just the way it needs to be.

What do you all think

Jan Pietrzak

New Members

Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:27:38 -0400

Richard????

Should we set-up a new member 'Say Hi' spot or just use this space to do it.

Jan Pietrzak

APIS II/09 signing your work

Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:38:52 -0400

Well the dust has settled and APIS 2009 is over.

We looked at a lot of great prints, but a curious fact occurred, photographers do not/did not sign their work, WHY.

The down side to this is that when you put work out and walk away WHO'S WORK IS IT.

When I came back to W21 lots of work was out, ok. Two of the people that came back with me where curators form Santa Fe and they wanted to know who's work was it.

"Nothing no names, front/back, nothing???????????"

So how do you sign your work and do you tell what the process is??????????

Just some thoughts

Jan Pietrzak

Getting started with carbon transfer printing list

Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:58:18 -0400

After reading through Sandy King's book and his article on www.alternativephotography.com I'm now ready to put together a list of materials and equipment. I would be very grateful if experienced printers could check to see if I've missed anything and possibly make comments. My initial intention is to print from in-camera 8x10 negatives developed for carbon printing contrast in Pyrocat-HD. However any gunk ending up on the negative may send me straight to a box of Agfa Copyjet.

Materials:

Gelatin - The Gelatin Silverprint sells is 250 bloom which should be fine.

Ammonium Dichromate - already have this. Can the sensitizer solutions be stored in plastic containers or should I store the solutions in amber glass?

Acetone to mix with the sensitizer for spirit coating.

http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art110.html - this article recommends double strength mixing of the dichromate solution, however Sandy King's book recommends triple strength mixing. If diluting 1:1, I understand a useful range of solutions to start with may be 4%, 8%, 12%.

I presume some alcohol would be useful at some point in the process (not to drink...), is Isopropanol sufficient or do I need 95% ethanol?. In North America and continental Europe you can buy 95% ethanol as a standard off-license item, however an equivalent to the 'Everclear' product is not available in the UK. I have found a source of Duty Paid 95% ethanol but it is expensive.

Chrome Alum / Potassium Alum. - Sandy King suggests Chrome Alum as a hardener for sizing final support papers, but http://www.carbonprinting.com/html/updates_to_manual.html recommends Potassium Alum. - which would you recommend?

The above URL also refers to using paper towels. Is this Kitchen towel or some other product?

Black India Ink http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/products..._indian_ink.htm

Support for carbon tissue making. After reading around this topic, I'm considering trying Harman Crystal Jet RC, but still open to suggestions. - how does wetting the support relate to resin coated papers? - I understand a smooth support surface will lead to a smoother surface on the final support.
http://www.harman-inkjet.com/products/prod...N+CRYSTALJET+RC

Hot press watercolour paper for final support. - I may try fixed out photographic paper to begin with. http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/products...paper_block.htm

blotting paper - http://www.euroffice.co.uk/i/0872/Leatherc...t-White-Pack-50

Equipment:

UV exposure unit - 1000W HID along these lines:
http://www.aquaculture-hydroponics.co.uk/p...bCategoryID=382

slow cooker for working with the glop and sizing mixtures. http://www.johnlewis.com/230223132/Product.aspx

Do I need or would you strongly recommend a blender for dispersing the glop solution more easily? e.g. http://www.johnlewis.com/230587702/Product.aspx

mixing beaker(s) for sensitizer.

wide mouth jar for glop mixing / storage. Preserving jars?
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/preserving-jars/...oduct/3813_3814

foam brushes - http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/products...oam_brushes.htm

a few sheets of glass for coating and sandwiching materials

25W incandescent light bulbs for working with the materials, sensitizing etc. I have five fixtures in my darkroom. - Has anyone tried the newer style Halogen GLS replacements? - http://www.thelightbulb.co.uk/product/detail.php?id=3734

APIS 2009

Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:06:00 -0400

Some pics and commentary from APIS 2009.

This year was a bit smaller than usual. Surprised? Probably not. Who likes flying and who wants to risk the cash?

What we lacked in size we made up for in intensity.
http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=294
Dr. Susan Barger and Seth Irwin do a joint presentation. Seth is getting his Masters in Photo Conservation at Qeen's College in Canada and Susan is the author of the seminal book on Daguerreotypes and is a recognized authority on them. She discussed issue on the deterioration of Dags.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=295
Luther Gerlach unveils his 22x30 inch wet plate camera that he built.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=296
Bob Herbst did a demo on putting carbon prints on aluminum. Fascinating!

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=297
While Bob and I were doing two separate demos on carbon, Luther was doing two livew one on doing Ambrotypes outside. Here are a couple of Ambrotypes from the demo.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=298
Luther talks.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=299
Later we went back to the auditorium and Stan Klimek did a talk on the business of printing for other folks.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=300
Auriel D'Amore Discusses the work of her late uncle and my dear friend Richard D'Amore. Richard was a highly accomplished photographer and was in the original Platypus Portfolio Group that I founded in 1984. Richard was murdered by gunshot by his wife Academy Award nominated make-up artist Hallie D'amore in 2006. Hallie committed suicide at the scene. Needless to say it was a moving presentation and finale to the event.

I'm bushed. More later.

--Dick

lavendar Oil

Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:40:51 -0400

I have been told that I can coat salt Prints with Lavendar Oil mixed with Beeswax.
Does anyone know how to mix the Oil and wax solution and also how to apply it?
Should I double boil or does lavendar oil melt beeswax normally?
Should I apply with a brush ?

Please help me as I am at a loss for what to do.

thankyou
Anthony Zepeda

I am teaching a carbon workshop today

Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:58:03 -0400

7 folks are being introduced to the carbon addiction. This workshop is part of PhotoArts Santa Fe and will be followed by APIS 2009.

Pictures and commentary to follow.

--Dick

multiple layer carbon technique

Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:40:12 -0400

how are people here preparing the final sheet for multiple layers of carbon prints?
one size at the bottom - enough for all. or sizing after each layer?

i made my first attempt at tri-color carbon (i know, i know- it's always the same: i try to run, before i can walk). three single transfers (y-m-c ) -plus maybe a black layer, if needed - on a watercolour paper sized with gesso. i know, most people here don't like to use gesso as a size for carbon, but it was my only choice when i started (i didn't have any chemicals for hardening gelatin and unhardened will just wash of in the hot bath) and it worked quite well for me, so i stuck with it.

the first layer of yellow was ok. but i had some frilling at the edges. i thought this was because, the tissue was too long in the cold bath (4 instead of 2 minutes) and i also forgot the safe-edges-mask, while fiddling with my new diy-registration system. so i dried it and put on the magenta-layer. i expected that the second layer will stick better to the paper, than the first because of the gelatin of the yellow layer. the opposite was the case: even more frilling, almost half the imaged didn't stick (even though i did not make the mistakes from the y-layer again). but i managed to keep the gelatin layer on the paper and it dried with a lot of wrinkles.

by then i knew the picture was ruined, but i got curious if the blue layer would stick better to the paper if i applied a size of gelatin (hardened in chrome alum) on top of the two ruined layers. and i already had a blue tissue sensitized, which would go to waste otherwise. and voila! the added gelatin-layer did the trick. the blue layer stuck perfectly to the other ones, even despite all the wrinkles beneath.

there's hardly any info to be found on the net about multiple layer carbons, so i wonder if it's common technique to size between layers?

Difficulty with Double Transfer

Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:35:20 -0400

Good Morning:

For several weeks I've attempted to make the first transfer in exploring a double transfer process, with a notable lack of success. No matter how long I develop the tissue during the transfer to the temporary support, the tissue does not soften at all. Last night, after nothing else seemed to work I decided to just let the initial transfer sit in 110 degree water for an hour, then try to separate the tissue from the temporary support. They tissue and the temporary support adhered strongly, but by then I'd decided to pull them apart no matter what, just to see what happened. A significant effort was required to separate the tissue and temporary support plastic. The tissue retained the gelatin and the temporary support retained none of the gelatin. Immediately after separation, the gelatin on the tissue was hard and glassy, as if it had not been mated at all. The only area where I saw any melting of the gelatin during development was on the margin where water could contact the gelatin between the tissue and the temporary support. However, once I'd forced the tissue and temporary support apart, the tissue softened readily and I could see the image layer floating about in the soft gelatin.

The tissue was a 10% gelatin mixture, generated with 175 bloom gelatin (100 Knox mixed with 250 B&S), the temperature when mixing the gelatin never exceeded about 115-120 degrees at any time. The tissue was ~ 10 days old as a motorcycle trip into Canada - in the rain - intervened between production and printing. I used yupo for the tissue support and a plastic material from B&S as the temporary support (which seemed to adhere very well to the gelatin on the tissue, so I think the mating procedure - @ ~58 degrees after about 30-40 seconds in the cool water - was appropriate). Single transfers to fixed-out photo paper with the same gelatin mix work just fine.

I wonder if all gelatin needs exposure to water to soften (which I assume may happen by migration through the fixed out photo paper). If so, I probably need to use a permeable support for the tissue - if so, what would you suggest? Otherwise, I wonder if I've goofed somewhere in making the gelatin mixture (basically a 10% gelatin mixture using Sandy King's approach to tissue generation and 4% pigment, per earlier comments and his book - with moderate sugar and glycerin).

Any thoughts? Thanks for your time!

Eric Haff

Your favorite black

Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:06:03 -0400

Well, as a carbon printer we have a lot of choices for our images. I have been using the Black Cat India Ink that Sandy recommended and like its warmth and gloss. I'm now beginning to experiment with different blacks. What is your favorite?

Jim

X-Ray Dup Film - Anyone familiar with this stuff?

Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:44:19 -0400

I just received a box of 100 sheets of 8x10 X-ray duplicating film that I bought on ebay for $2. I ran across this stuff while I was looking for something else. I put in the minimum bid and no one else bid on it. Anyway, many years ago I used to use a Kodak duplicating film for making direct negative enlargements for gum printing and, when I saw this stuff, I thought I might be able to use it under my enlarger to make negatives for alt printing.

Is anyone familiar with this film? There is no information sheet in or on the box so I don't have a starting point for processing it. I think it is safe under a red safelight - I will test and see. I no longer remember how I used to process the Kodak film. I also used to use lith film for a two-step method for making enlarged negs and seem to recall developing it in Dektol.

I have seen discussions in this forum on using regular x-ray film in camera and thought I would ask here if anyone has advice on using this stuff. If not, I plan to cut up a few sheets and start experimenting.

Dan

Just a reminder to look at the galley -- esp. Andrea's new work!

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:55:56 -0400

I just took a quick peak at the gallery and saw Andrea's newest work posted there. Wonderful! Six-color images using inkjet prints negatives!

Vaughn

Injet photo paper for carbon transfer tissue

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:20:17 -0400

In my efforts towards starting carbon printing, I came across a reference on this forum to using standard inkjet photo paper for tissue support, this seems like a good option as the Harman Crystaljet product retails for 20 GBP / 100 sheets of A4. Not as inexpensive as some of the other options perhaps (e.g. wallpaper) but using A4 paper would decrease the amount of space required. Is my thinking along the right lines?

I assume the glop would be coated on the uncoated side of the paper.

Tom.

Class Assignment: "What I Did on My Summer Vacation."

Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:29:11 -0400

Ok, I'm back. Give me a day or two and I'll post some pics of my show at the museum in Jalapa and the workshop in Puebla. I shot at 13 megpix so I need to make them smaller and will take a bit of time.

As a note to the others here: if you do a class or a show, please document and share with the rest of us here. We have an advantage over the old listserve software in that we can post images, though the process is a bit clunky. Also share your impressions of the show and how the students responded to the workshop.

More tomorrow. Lots of catching up to do.

--Dick

Mystery carbon printer in Old Mexico

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 08:39:52 -0400

I met this guy teaching a carbon class in Xalapa Mexico. He wouldn't tell me his name but he did say his intitial were S.K.

Anmy of you Sherlock's outh there have a clu who this might be.
He has just finisghed a demo on sizing art paper with a coating rod.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=279

Carbon in Jalapa Mexico

Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:01:12 -0400

I am in Jalapa Mexico for the alt conference and my show at the Contemporary Arts Museuem. The show is with Jon Goodman and Julio Galindo. I've got a flaky connection so when I get a chance I will send some pictures of the beautiful installaion of my work at the museum.

Jalapa --> Jalap[eno] (yes) food hot youbetchangood!

They're taking this conference seriously here. I did a 15 minute Vera Cruz televison interview and a 2 hour sit down with a newpaper reporter. Sheese! Everyone at the museum called me Maestro Sullivan, sorta like I am Toscanini or something. Artist get respect here.

I did a roundtable with Jon Goodman and Carlos Jerrado (80 yrs) last night.

Most questions have to do with what do I think about digital, like somehow I am sposed to be agin it.

I won't try to post any images on this link, maybe tomorrow. Have fun!

--Dick

In the Groove!

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:20:47 -0400

I got in the groove today! things are starting to make sense with respect to the whole process. My tissue pours and pigment loads are more or less standardized, I am able to read my negatives with respect to sensitizer strength, I've got the NuArc dialed in for exposure and I understand the relationship of dichromate strength to exposure time.

So with this in mind I decided to print 4 11x14's that are tough to print. I am happy to say that i have 4 keepers! Woo Hoo!!!!! I am consistently making some wonderful prints. I think what helps is that I have been able to make 2 prints a day for some time now. It has helped with the learning curve a great deal.

I posting this for comments from my other carbon brothers about their consistency and learning/experimenting curves and to let the new printers on the forum know that in time they too will be making great prints.

Jim

Report from Puebla Mexico

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:41:25 -0400

as typical for carbon workshops, everyone is excited about the process and like most workshops a bit of camradery has developed.

It's in a small photo school that has still not gone digital!

Here's some pics.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=272

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=271

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=272

More manana.

QTR 4880 profile

Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:46:54 -0400

has anybody a starting profile for Epson 4880?
I usually work with 2100: 60.255.0 and acv produced ChartThrob, but I would minimize this kind of corrections.
Thanks
dam

I am in Mexico

Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:15:37 -0400

In case anyone wondered where I might have dissapeard to, I am in Mexico City. I am on a very slow dialup so it�s pain to post. Julio and I are heading to Puebla tommorow and they should have high speed wieless at the university there.

More later.

-dick

Materials Sources

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:07:13 -0400

Greetings:

Can anyone provide a source for ~175 Bloom gelatin? I can find 250 bloom most everywhere and purchase same from B&S, but I want to try to build a tissue with 175 bloom.

Thanks for any contact information you can provide. Eric

powered pigments

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:13:12 -0400

Here is a question I have been meaning to ask for a while. I'm going to start experimenting with some powered pigments as soon as the batch of tissue I made (30 sheets) is gone. Do you mix the powers in some water before you put it in the glop for better disbursement? It would seem to me that if you try to add powder to the gelatin even when warm it may not dissolve completely. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Oh, I love it when the NuArc goes off! Time to transfer!

Jim

Old Mexico

Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:12:41 -0400

I will be leaving New Mexico for Old Mexico on Wednesday and be there for two weeks.

I have bought a new itty bitty netbook computer so I should be able to monitor the forum, that is depending on wireless connections which I expect will be good since most of my time will be spent at universities.

Sooooo.... keep up the discussions, which doesn't seem to be much of a problem and I hope to join in while I am down in Mexico City, Puela, and Jalapa.

--Dick

Color Photo Paper Good for Carbon Transfer?

Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:32:08 -0400

Over the weekend, a friend dropped off a bunch of partial boxes of various photo papers he had cleaned out of his darkroom. Most of the papers have expiration dates in the early 70s and I found myself waxing nostalgic over the boxes of Ektalure G, Kodabromide, and Luminos Bromide - all papers that I used in those times. The Ektalure G might be enough to get me to try a transfer to paper. But there were also partial boxes of 11x14 Cibrachrome and 16x20 Oriental color RPIII paper. Can color paper be fixed out and used for transfers? Are there any potential long term archival issues with color paper? I've only worked with monochrome and E-6 processes.

First Carbon Print

Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:58:49 -0400

It's drying right now so can't share it with you. It's not that great but I was pleased that there actually was something there. when it was developing, I was a bit worried as it looked buggered up but the more the glop washed away the more I could see the image. It's too under exposed so I'll have to give it longer exposure....I think. Don't want to start messing around with too many variables at once. Oh, I didn't bother clearing in sodium bisulfite bath as there was no yellowing...probably because it was waaaaay under exposed.

37% Formaldehyde

Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:00:15 -0400

Finally the supplies I had been waiting for arrived this afternoon. 37% formaldehyde was one of them. I was really scared of this stuff but just couldn't resist taking a whiff of it. Well, it doesn't really smell that bad. Infact, it's really quite mild smelling. I'm even starting to wonder if it's really 37%...

Anyone else got this email?

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:07:35 -0400

sez,

If you haven't been by the forum in a while, drop in and let us know what on your mind carbon-wise.

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Uh? I know that I don't post that often but when I do I hope that I am contributing to this forum. I know that it shows only three posts but I know I have more. But really I don't care about post count, it's not that important to me. Could this be the reason why?

Just curious

Your first

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:29:49 -0400

Things are quiet so I thought I'd pose a question -- could be good for marketing too: What created the spark to get you interested in carbon printing? And secondly: How did your first print come out and when did you get a "keeper?"

APIS

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:03:25 -0400

Note that the alternative Photographic International Symposium is coming up soon. Two folks coming from Brazil so as usual it is international.

For more info:

http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/produ...=242&page=1

Thanks.

Mexico Problems!

Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:20:19 -0400

I was scheduled to teach a carbon workshop in Puebla Mexico. Sent everything down to the school, squeegees, tissue, polymer, pads etc. Customs won't release the stuff to the school because "it has solution in it!" Nothing else can go either because of the solutions??? This is not unusual as B+S has had nothing but problems shipping stuff to Mexico. For one, we have been told that nothing with sodium in it can go in. If the label says sodium chloride, it has sodium and that is hazardous. Now it is solutions. The only solution in the package is GAC 100 polymer! Nutz!

There goes my workshop.

--Dick

My first Carbon Print

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:32:45 -0400

Hi all:

I wanted to share my first carbon print. Feedback is always welcome. Please guys, things at times get difficult in life and we do not act in the best way we know. I think we are spending too much time in reactions to personal feelings. You know, the world is already in a chaotic state, we do not need to make a contribution to this affair, the only contribution is to carbon printing. All of you have so much to offer, and I have to tell you, every morning, I am looking forward to read comments of all of you. And I am not along, since I always check who is online, and many of you are looking as well. But difficult words happen even in the best families. So I think we all need to move on, continue to participate, and PLEASE GIVE ME FEEDBACK TO MY FIRST PRINT!!!! Is this selfish, sure, but I try to dissipate the tension a little bet. Sandy, I hope you read this and you will be in my prayers.

Ed

Time to move on

Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:10:53 -0400

The feedback both online and offline from my post yesterday morning has been pretty clear. What was once a refuge is now just another of life's stressors and is counter-productive to all involved. Dick, you are welcome to remove my posting and the entire thread so others can heal and return to their happy place. I'll look for another refuge. My apologies to all for the disruption. Good printing.

Self Promotion and Advertising

Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:14:46 -0400

I've only been a member of this forum since July of last year but recently I have started to notice something which, for me, is a disturbing trend. Product promotion and other forms of product advertising and self promotion by members have been working their way into this forum. I would like to make a proposal to all members that a charter guideline of this forum be adopted for members to refrain from using the forum for self promotion of products, services and workshops for which members are paid, or products from which members receive royalties.

I fled APUG long ago for a variety of reasons but one was particular reason was being barraged with advertising and shameless promotion of products and services in discussion threads. What attracted me to this forum and the group of people I find here is the open exchange of ideas for the benefit of increasing knowledge of the entire group. It has a very academic feel to it - almost like true R&D and I don't know about others, but I find that refreshing. I've worked for over 30 years in corporate Amerika with thousands of marketing and sales people, engineers, intellectual property attorneys, contract lawyers, and international standards groups like ISA, IEC, and IEEE. It's a living, and how I fund my passion for photography. My most enjoyable times in all of the jobs I've held was working with the Advanced Technology group on pure R&D projects. APIS is a similar atmosphere of being an extremely open and sharing forum over the years I have attended.

I have no problem with having a separate "Workshops" section for members to post workshops which they are teaching or attending or for comments by others. I think such a section would be very a valuable resource (BTW, I am NOT teaching workshops anymore and haven't for a couple years). After all, it was a workshop that got me hooked on this carbon stuff!

Of course, Richard would be exempt since Bostick and Sullivan is funding this site and the reason we are not barraged with advertising like other sites with which we are all familiar. However, in my short time visiting here, I think Richard has done an extraordinary job of NOT abusing the site to promote Bostick and Sullivan products. In fact the opposite is probably true since the vast majority of posts here have to do with your own making lay-down tissue. Yes, there are links to B&S products but you have to make the conscious decision to click on them. They are not put up in your face or displayed all over every page without your mouse click - I have not seen any "mouse rollover" ads or pop-ups.

Those are my thoughts for consideration by the group. If I'm the only one who feels this way I will defer to the others. Thank you everyone for your contributions of knowledge and experience to this forum.

Bob Herbst

My New Projek

Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:48:00 -0400

UPS tracking says my parts for the new machine should arrive from engineering tomorrow. It's an old new design but this one will allow me to do multiple coatings -- that is once I figure out the time and temperature settings for multiple coatings. The design will also allow me to keep up with production and add more types and colors to the inventory. An interesting bit is that market research says that having more options reduces total sales! I suspect that is true of impulse buying, as Malcolm Gladwell points out in Blink, about jams at a farmers market, but I don't see carbon tissue as an "impulse" item.

Ok, I have a question: Has anyone ever done a multi-coat laydown? Marton (1905) mentions a three coat carbon, first coat black/brown, second coat green, third coat sky blue. In theory, take a picture of a tree on a grassy hill and the trunk and shadows are blk/brn, the hill and leaves are green and the sky blue. OK, your ROFL'ing and so am I. I can imagine a rilly hideous image.

More to the point you can make a one shot duo or tri-toned image. Any tips from experience, or if no experience, how would you approach this? Would there be a market for duotone tissue.

Last October when I was at the Eastman House I looked (drooled idiotically at actually) at some @ 24 x 30 inch Autotype posters that had tipped on real carbon prints (4x5) in about 25 different colors. More than I had seen in ads. The images matched the colors: sea green had a sail boat, etc.

--Dick

QTR curves

Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:19:33 -0400

I have made an interesting experience the other day, printing with UC K3 inks (Epson 3800 in my case).

I printed the 'Ink Pattern Page' of QTR's Calibration mode onto a sheet of OHP.
This mode prints scales from 0-100% ink density of the 8 individual inks used by the Epson.

With my x-rite 361T UV densitometer, I read the 100% patches of each ink and got the following order of UV blocking power:
(MK being definitely the top blocking, I only use the PK black, as I hate to swap inks between neg and regular positive inkjet printing,
which I only do with PK)

I then wanted to see how all the inks would print in carbon.
The tissue was sensitized with 12% AD, and to my surprise, the order of blocking power changed to the following:

Then I exposed the same tissue with 2% AD, and the order changed again:

Conclusion:
Whereas the first 3 inks remain the top blockers with same order, the yellow stain of the sensitizer concentration in combination with the lighter inks, changes the order of blocking somehow significantly.
This does have an impact on curve creation with QTR.
Also, this makes the 361T less reliable regarding overall UV transmittance readings of digital negs.

An important factor is probably also the light source being used, in my case TLK fluorescent tubes.
I can image that the results will be different for each and everyone's setup and recommend printing out the Pattern Page yourself, it is interesting to see how your tissue reacts with the different inks.

Sidney

For 'In camera' neg printers, only!

Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:41:15 -0400

I came across some nice information about a PMK alternative. This has nothing to do with carbon in the first degree, so please forgive for posting this.
I don't do in camera negs for my carbon work, but do develop all my negs in PMK. Randomly surfing the net, I came across some info that I simply wish to share.

Sidney

Soluble temporary support

Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:04:02 -0400

"You could get relief in double transfer by first tranferring the image on plastic to a temporary carrier with a soluble gelatin coating. Then you could transfer this image to a final support with a hardened gelatin surface. Depending on the relief of the image and the surface of the final support you could get an image with as much relief as with single trnasfer. This is the method that was used to make tri-color carbro prints and some of these prints have very high relief."

Sandy

Do you have any information providing details of how this works? I have read Nadeau's description of soluble temporary supports and seem to have a complete mental block to its application. In my current work I would like to develop my first transfer onto clear plastic, evaluate it for exposure, contrast, etc., transfer that image to a dimensionally stable temporary support, develop a second image on plastic (shadow bump exposure, color layer for duotone, tritone work) and transfer that in register onto the temporary support. When the entire image is built in layers on the temporary support, I would then transfer the finished product to a final artpaper support. This seems like three transfers to me and results in a reversed image. Am I missing something basic?

I am currently producing multiple layer transfers by developing each layer in sequence on the same dichromated albumen plastic support, allowing each layer to fully dry before registering and developing the next exposure; then transfering the completed image to the gel coating on paper.

Porfolio of Carbon Prints in View Camera

Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:44:05 -0400

A porfolio of my carbon transfer work will appear in the next issue of View Camera magazine. There will be a short text, which explains my long interest in alternative printing processes, which goes back to the early 1980s.

Hope some of you have an opportunity to read the text and look at some of the images.

Sandy

I need a carbon curve for a Epson 4000

Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:27:34 -0400

I am teaching a workshop in Mexico. The school has an Epson 4000 and say we can use Burkholder's curve. Well maybe not. I know every curve is meant for a specific set of parameters but I feel any curve is better than none and I don't want to waste my time building one down there. QTR is ok and even preferred but I'd like both.

--Dick

An amazing guy

Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:08:17 -0400

Back in 2001, early October actually, I visited Pierre Brochet in his farmhouse in Fountainbleau. Pierre was then about 90. He was a small short man of about 5'6" and of wiry proportions. He could easily walk under the beams in the cellar of his barn where he showed me his carbon coating machine. I had to crouch for an hour or so and was in pain for several days.

Pierre did Dags, gum, carbon and his specialty was gravure. He even crushed and screen his rosin for aquatinting his plates telling me that the commercial stuff was "merde" French for junk. We spent many hours there having dinner cooked by his wife -- oh my! -- and looking at his prints. He had done reprint portfolios for the Biblioteque Nationale and other major institutions. It was truly what one would call a peak experience.

Pierre had a shirt open and I could see the stitched zipper down his front indicating a heart operation. I have found no indication other than he is still with us.

A quick look at his work at:

http://jaclo14.free.fr/galerie/brochp/brochp.htm

And this is recent work, will show you he is no 1930's stick in the mud when it comes to art. After having looked at his 19th century equipment, and we had had dinner, he showed my his new playpen -- A room full of Macs!

This is a man who is hardly known in the US but should be better known. Though we only spent less than 8 hours together I think we bonded quite well.

I thought a tribute to one of the unknown greats was in order.

--d

Galvanized Steel Support

Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:28:32 -0400

I have been lurking here about once a day since I joined. I can't stand it any longer -- I've got to learn how to do this! Since I do print in other Alt processes, including gum, I have a lot of the necessary materials at hand. There are a few things that I still wish to acquire before I begin. One of them is a galvanized steel support to use with magnetic strips. I have located some 0.040 magnetic material at a local sign shop but, before I head out to the local sheet metal shop, I would like to ask, what gage metal would you recommend?

Dan

Size Of Tissue VS Size Of Negative

Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:18:32 -0400

I could have thought I asked this question this morning in a new thread...but I guess I didn't. Oh well.
I'm making tissues that are about 1/4" larger than my 8x10 negatives on all sides...too small? If so, how much larger is best? Thank you!

Mexico and carbon

Sun, 31 May 2009 13:37:52 -0400

The US has for some decades been the heart and soul of handmade and historic photo processes. Now this may be a prejudiced view from my part of Bostick & Sullivan since 1979-80. It may look like the sun revolves around the earth.

But there has been recently a lot of activity on carbon in Mexico. I taught a workshop in Mexico City in 2005 and the students were very excited about the process. (What else is new?) I am teaching a workshop next month in Puebla and Sandy is teaching one in Xalapa. There is a grant being applied for -- they seem to be sure of getting it -- for me to teach carbon down there next summer.

Now at this point I venture into some wild ass speculation. (Ah, just like an art critic!)

I've discussed Mexico with two museum photography curators and both expressed the same opinion: Mexican photography will blow like Vesuvius now that Bravo is dead. I know we like to think that artists are individuals but they are nourished by their social environment. I was at a party of photographers and it seemed everyone carried a Rollie. I saw more Rollies in the week I was there than I had seen in decades in the US. Photography = Rolliflex = Bravo.

This is an area that Sandy may shed light on as language professors are also professor's of culture. You can walk the streets of Mexico City and find boot and shoe maker shops. I suspect there are people there my age who have never had a pair of Malaysian factory made shoes or factory made shoes of any kind. So, I wonder, does the close proximity to many handcrafted items make for an affinity for carbon printing with has serious craft aspects to it?

--Dick

I learnt Something Tonight

Sun, 31 May 2009 01:37:30 -0400

Tonight I learnt that the temperature of the glop when coating the tissue is important. I got really nice clean coats between 32C and 38C. Smooth, shiny with no bubbles. I used a 3/4" copper pipe warmed up in a water bath "rolled" over a magnetic frame of about 1mm thickness. I decided to see what would happen if I let the glop's temperature drop to 25C. I coated and got lots of bubbles. I wonder if "dragging" the rod would work better in this case?

Reducing Carbon Prints--Safe Method

Sat, 30 May 2009 10:18:10 -0400

What we all like is for our carbon prints to develop to exactly the right density with our standard development time. This happens about 99% of the time, right? But there is always that 1% of the time when the print is still too dark after the standard development time, or even worse, we thought it was ok but when the print dried it looks too dark.

Problem is, if we recognize that the print needs to be reduced initially there is some risk involved in continuing development. The print is very fragile at this point and both heating up the development bath and/or adding an alkaline to open up the gelatin runs the risk of blisters and frilling. I have found that it is far safer to just develop for the standard time and dry the print and reduce it later.

I have found that it is possible to reduce the density of carbon prints up to a week or so after the print is dry. However, the amount of reduction that is possible decreases with each day so it is important to take action as soon as possible. To reduce, simply mix a few teaspoonfuls of sodium metaborate or carbonae in a tray with hot water and leave the print to soak for about 10-30 minutes. I have been able to consistently reduce density from one-hald to one full stop with this method, and it is very safe as the image, once dry, is very stable on paper surfaces, even with long soaks in very warm water.

Test this method out. It may save you a nice print.

BTW, let me mention something that many of you probably already know. Thick tissues that are thinly pigmented have a much more limited range of reduction possibility than thin tissues that are heavily pigmented.

Sandy

accoutrements for carbon printing

Fri, 29 May 2009 05:13:16 -0400

Just for fun, see attachment. I use these items regularly so consider them indispensable. Disclaimer: list is not comprehensive and is constantly amended.

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=259

Sharpness in a Carbon Print

Thu, 28 May 2009 17:31:46 -0400

In another thread Dick wrote:

"A bunch of youse guys here a while back were all raging about sharpness at a time when I was struggling to print some 10x15 prints from 35mm. I could see they were not as sharp as some of my scanned 5x7's or 8x10's. Sandy jumped on me about being defensive. Well I was but stepping back I realized that that this sharpness thing was being discussed in a particular universe and not meant in general terms."

To stay on topic I decided to start another thread.

Sharpness is sometimes hard to put your mind around but it is for sure not entirely related to format size. LF can of course have a lot more detail than smaller formats, but with some subjects detail does not matter a lot.

I am attaching as illustration a carbon print I just made from a Canon G9. The print is 12X17" in size and looking at it at normal viewing distance it looks really nice and sharp. Since it is an all natural landscape with no man made detail it can get away with a lot less detail. Bear in mind that the sensor on the Canon G9 is only about 7mm long, a lot less than even APS sensor DSLR. But this print at this size looks every bit as sharp as prints I have made of same size from 6X9cm film.

BTW, this is not infrared but one of those HDR shots where you bracket normal and two stops over and under and then merge the tones in Photoshop. The range of contrast at this scene was very great and that was the only way to capture the tones with a digital camera. I had a MF film camera with me at the time but the battery went dead just as I reached this spot.

Sandy King

Fungicide

Thu, 28 May 2009 00:07:15 -0400

There was an earlier thread on thymol use as a fungicide in glop ("a few drops of 30% solution ... I assume it was per liter.) Also discussed was Benzoic Acid and Sodium Benzoate (1 gram per liter.) Of those, some did not like the Thymol "hospital smell" and literature suggests that both Thymol and Benzoic Acid do not dissolve well in water. Sodium Benzoate ("100 times more water soluble than Benzoic Acid") seems to be the best choice but I've had trouble finding it locally (tried Supermarkets, Health Food stores, and Pharmacy.)

I would like to use a fungicide because my work flow is considerably more erratic and in smaller volume than most people on this board and and being able to make glop and stick it in the refrigerator for several weeks is an attractive option. It dawned on me that I'd used a fungicide mixed into my paint the last time I repainted the bathroom. And, that carbon printing is a lot like painting ... surface preparation and adherence issues, bubble-phobia, drying times, survival/archival qualities, etc. I went to my neighborhood hardware store and found "Super Mildex." It comes in small sizes (including a 10 gram flat-plastic container) ... it is usable with latex paint so is apparently water soluble but is a little pricey ($2.99 for 10 grams ... enough for 1 gallon of paint.)

The active ingredient is Thiabendazole (50%) plus 50% "Other Ingredients" (oh-oh!)

Has anybody tried this stuff? Are there any other suggestions?

Drying Time using Pictorico

Tue, 26 May 2009 15:20:29 -0400

Greetings All:

I continue to muddle on and am enjoying the carbon process more and more. I am now trying to calibrate digital negatives utalizing Pictorico (and M. Nelson's PDN process) and have been surprised that the Pictorico seems to stick to the tissue, even when the tissue seemed dry before exposure and i significantly extended the drying time. I do not have that issue with in-camera negatives at all. I've gone from 1 1/2 hour total drying time after coating to 2 1/2 and it still sticks after the exposure. Is PIctorico prone to this effect? If not, then I've probably messed up this tissue pour.

As always, thanks for your patience and assistance!

Eric