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digital negatives for salted paper-do they work?


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#1 Taylor99

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 05:02 PM

Hello, has anyone tried making digital negatives for the salted paper process? I have tried numerous methods and am coming to the conclusion that the density provided by a printer is not sufficient for this method's requirements. I might need to stick to making at a photolab on film. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks for your advice!

#2 pschwart

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 06:19 PM

Hello, has anyone tried making digital negatives for the salted paper process? I have tried numerous methods and am coming to the conclusion that the density provided by a printer is not sufficient for this method's requirements. I might need to stick to making at a photolab on film. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks for your advice!

I have not actually tried this, but I would expect that one could make salted prints from a digital negative. It is true that some printer/ink combinations don't provide sufficient UV density.
- what printer are you using?
- what substrate are you using for the negative?
- How are you printing your negatives -- Photoshop? QTR? Some other RIP?
- how are you generating your correction curve?
Philip Schwartz

#3 Jim Noel

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:55 AM

I have not actually tried this, but I would expect that one could make salted prints from a digital negative. It is true that some printer/ink combinations don't provide sufficient UV density.
- what printer are you using?
- what substrate are you using for the negative?
- How are you printing your negatives -- Photoshop? QTR? Some other RIP?
- how are you generating your correction curve?


I have had several students who were successful in making digital negatives for Pt/Pd attempt negatives for salt. None were able to obtain sufficient density for a good print. I suggest making them with lith films in the darkroom. It is quick and easy once you learn to make a correct inter-positive.

#4 Richard Sullivan -- Moderator

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 11:14 AM

Not knowing which printer etc, it is hard to give any advice.

Assuming it is a late model Epson you might try looking for somenting called "Paper Config" on the print menu. It's on my 7880 and 9800.

Up the color density slider to +20 or +30. The title is a bit deceptive what it does is to increases the ink level. You can go more, but you risk getting a drippy inky print.

In that case up the slider on drying time.

You can also add some yellow to the mix which helps block the UV. Even though the matt black is more absorbent of UV than the yellow, it seems that reducing the black by 20% and adding 20% yellow does more blocking. Go figure.


--Dick


I have had several students who were successful in making digital negatives for Pt/Pd attempt negatives for salt. None were able to obtain sufficient density for a good print. I suggest making them with lith films in the darkroom. It is quick and easy once you learn to make a correct inter-positive.


Dick Sullivan HONFRPS
Bostick & Sullivan
The Center for Photographic History and Technology

#5 Taylor99

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 08:40 AM

Thanks everyone, will give it another go but I fear the suggestion of the lith film is the one I will need to stick to. That method has given me the best results so far. I have gotten some very good results with that whereas the printer negatives are way way too thin for salted paper even when maxed out.

As for printers, I am using a Canon S900 so unfortunately am on the outer ring with regards to help with curves! Thanks to all!

Taylor

#6 Richard Sullivan -- Moderator

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

I still think you need to try laying down more ink.

I downlaoded a S900 manual and here's how to get more ink on the film:


>>Windows
1 Open the Printer Properties dialog box.
2 On the Main tab, select Manual for Colour Adjustment, and then click
Set.
3 Drag the Intensity slide bar to adjust the intensity.

Macintosh
1 Open the Print dialog box.
2 For Print Mode, select Manual and then click Details.
3 Click the Colour icon and drag the Intensity slide bar to set the intensity.<<

There is also a dry time setting in there that will allow the ink to dry as it is pritning so you don't get a drippy print.

My Epson 7880 needs a 20% boost to work right, although I use QTR mostly.

You might also try changing the media type. If there is an "art paper" setting form Hanna's Mule paper or some such thing you can try that too. You should be able to bather the film in ink.


--Dick

--Dick




Thanks everyone, will give it another go but I fear the suggestion of the lith film is the one I will need to stick to. That method has given me the best results so far. I have gotten some very good results with that whereas the printer negatives are way way too thin for salted paper even when maxed out.

As for printers, I am using a Canon S900 so unfortunately am on the outer ring with regards to help with curves! Thanks to all!

Taylor


Dick Sullivan HONFRPS
Bostick & Sullivan
The Center for Photographic History and Technology

#7 Guest_bobherbst_*

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 05:31 PM

I can't speak for the Canon printer drivers, but the media type profile makes a huge difference for digital negatives on the Epson printers. Pick the wrong media profile and you may never get enough ink or get so much that no Photoshop curve in the world can correct it. All of the other ideas here are of course valid as well. I have used "Enhanced Matte" media profile for most all of the models of Epson printers with which I've worked and it has been able to produce sufficient density. The modern Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks can produce densities up to 4.0.

I still think you need to try laying down more ink.

I downlaoded a S900 manual and here's how to get more ink on the film:
>>Windows
1 Open the Printer Properties dialog box.
2 On the Main tab, select Manual for Colour Adjustment, and then click
Set.
3 Drag the Intensity slide bar to adjust the intensity.

Macintosh
1 Open the Print dialog box.
2 For Print Mode, select Manual and then click Details.
3 Click the Colour icon and drag the Intensity slide bar to set the intensity.<<

There is also a dry time setting in there that will allow the ink to dry as it is pritning so you don't get a drippy print.

My Epson 7880 needs a 20% boost to work right, although I use QTR mostly.

You might also try changing the media type. If there is an "art paper" setting form Hanna's Mule paper or some such thing you can try that too. You should be able to bather the film in ink.
--Dick

--Dick



#8 Richard Sullivan -- Moderator

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 08:44 AM

I use a higher Yellow setting in the V! area of QTR for the 7880 which uses a newer inkset as well. KCM are at 8 and Y is at 12. On this set, Howard has a 78880 too and confirms this, the yellow is more opaque to UV than the black.

--Dick

I can't speak for the Canon printer drivers, but the media type profile makes a huge difference for digital negatives on the Epson printers. Pick the wrong media profile and you may never get enough ink or get so much that no Photoshop curve in the world can correct it. All of the other ideas here are of course valid as well. I have used "Enhanced Matte" media profile for most all of the models of Epson printers with which I've worked and it has been able to produce sufficient density. The modern Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks can produce densities up to 4.0.


Dick Sullivan HONFRPS
Bostick & Sullivan
The Center for Photographic History and Technology

#9 pschwart

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 10:53 AM

I use a higher Yellow setting in the V! area of QTR for the 7880 which uses a newer inkset as well. KCM are at 8 and Y is at 12. On this set, Howard has a 78880 too and confirms this, the yellow is more opaque to UV than the black.

--Dick

I use the Premium Glossy Photo Paper media setting with my Epsons R1800 (glossy Ultrachrome inkset).
Philip Schwartz



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